by Sophia Ruan Gushée

Should we be worried about the 5G rollout?

5G is the next wireless communication network that is supposed to work even better: with greater speed for a greater bandwidth of data transmission. (Most of us currently use 4G.)

You can read more in my article "What is 5G and the internet of things (iot)?"

5G will be rolled out worldwide, and aggressively throughout the United States. This has many people wondering, Will the 5G rollout be safe for my family and I?

While how 5G radiation emission affects our biology is not known (we're still studying the affects of older wireless networks), those who have been studying how our existing EMF exposures may affect us are very concerned.

I was especially excited to talk to Daniel DeBaun to learn his thoughts.

Daniel DeBaun, previously a telecommunications engineer at Bell Labs and AT&T, founded his company DefenderShield after he realized that all electronic devices emit low levels of radiation called electromagnetic fields (EMFs), that have been proven harmful after a long period of exposure close to the body. He couldn't find a product that completely blocked all radiation coming from our mobile devices so he decided to make a shield that blocked up to 100% of mobile device emissions. And with that, DefenderShield was born.

As an EMF-expert, Daniel co-authored a book with his son Ryan DeBaun, called Radiation Nation. Radiation Nation is an easy-to-read guide to everything EMF, from current research to the best tips and tricks to protecting yourself from mobile device radiation.

 

EMFs are like "bees in the room"

Daniel describes EMFs as "bees in the room." One bee won't hurt you unless you are allergic. The more bees in the room, however, the greater the risk of getting hurt by the bees.

You can think of EMF sources as bees. The more EMF sources, the greater the risk you will be harmed. 5G is a new species of bees that will be layered into our more-crowded-than-ever environment that is full of new species of bees (or EMFs).

 

Listen to my podcast with former telecom insider Daniel Debaun

You can listen to my conversation with Daniel by clicking below. Or, review the transcript of the podcast. Daniel provides a great context of EMFs and how they can affect our biology, and therefore how to consider 5G. We also discuss our bodies' own EMFs, how "grounding" works, and EMF protection approaches that work. 

Also, DefenderShield has issued a special 20% discount for you!

Use coupon code: nontoxicliving20

I'd love to hear from you. Please share comments, feedbacks, and questions at [email protected]

 

 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I’m so excited to talk to you.  

Daniel Debaun:  Thank you.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I’m going through your book, taking notes.  

Daniel:  Can I quiz you on it?

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  You can.  I've actually been listening to podcasts that you've been on and I love your story.  You worked in telecom for over 30 years, an engineer and you have a lot of technical expertise with how the technology works.  You worked and all new technologies have to be tested in your labs.

Daniel:  Yeah, exactly.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  But it was concern for your sons.  So I was listening to some of your podcasts and heard you say that your sons, you have two sons and they started using laptops putting them on their laps, like everyone does, and your wife had the common sense…

Daniel:  Right.  Women!  Who knew?

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I heard your wife said, “Don’t put the laptop on your lap.  That can’t be good for you.”  She just had the intuitive sense that it’s probably a bad thing.  I heard that and I thought didn’t you and the other men in your labs ever wonder about that?

Daniel:  No.  Absolutely, not.  What was really, really interesting was that I used to think of it as a stepchild when I used to do the testing on the technology stuff.  I never worried about this stuff.  When we did the testing we wanted to know how it interfered with other technologies.  Not other humans, other technologies.  

So when my wife says, “That can’t be good for you,” I said, “You don't know what you're talking about.”  But I said, “Well, let me just take a quick look in some research science stuff that’s going on,” and I was shocked.  There was actually a lot of evidence that said there could be damage from exposures that are excess.  

I said, “Well, let’s go find something.”  I couldn’t find anything.  So I said, “Well, I can build one.”  So I designed a shielding technology that allowed us to prevent the signals from going through to my sons.  That’s how we started.  

I built a couple of prototypes for my sons.  Their friends wanted some.  And then, over time, their friends wanted some.  So all of a sudden I was in the business of doing shielding for the very business I used to be in creating the technology, so it was really an interesting situation.  

By the way, I still don’t have any grandchildren.  Just in case you were wondering.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yes.  I've been looking to EMFs for a while.  I have three children who are relatively young and so my concern is for my children because children have a unique vulnerability.  So I've hired a certified EMF expert to measure my home.  He's made several visits because circumstances change all the time.  I’m in the city so what my neighbors do affects me.  

But I have your DefenderShield because this guy mentioned, Matt Waletzke of Healthy Dwellings, he mentioned in one of his visits that with his tools, he measures a lot of different things, and the DefenderShield worked.  It seemed to work.

Daniel:  Yeah.  Well, it turns out after about three or four hours, 25% of the male sperm is immobile from an RF signal being transmitted to the Wi-Fi.  It’s literally impacting temporarily, and of course there's also argument that says it can be much more long term.  There's been recently a study that said the male sperm is becoming less and less potent all the time.  Well, that’s because everyone has a cell phone or a laptop or tablet sitting right on their laps so is there any wonder why some of this stuff is happening.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So I would use this DefenderShield under my laptop and I just thought, to me, it just looks like plastic.  There are clearly layers of things inside.  Can you just explain to me how does it work?

Daniel:  It’s funny but what prompted me was there are several technologies that you have to use to fully shield all the stuff that comes off a tablet.  I remember the first cable that was produced, that was a transatlantic cable.  This was a long time ago.  And they had a problem shielding.  So there was a material that was created for shielding the very low frequency stuff to prevent the fish from eating it.  So it had to be really sealed.  

So I said, “I remember that,” and that’s the technology that you need for shielding the really low stuff.  

Then for the Wi-Fi cell phone connections, Bluetooth, it’s a little faster in frequency so I had another technology that I used for doing that.  

So it was a combination of a couple that ultimately provided the 100% shielding that I was looking for for my kids.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  Taking a step back for listeners who maybe are new to the idea of electromagnetic fields, can you explain?  So electromagnetic fields is just a broad term that applies to a broad range of waves of energy.  There is energy that is naturally created from the earth.  They're natural EMFs, is like the nickname, and then all wired and wireless technologies create manmade radiation.  

So you write in your book that a lot of the EMF protection products, most of them don’t block the harmful waves 100%.  They maybe block just one type.  Can you explain that a little bit more?

Daniel:  Yeah, I will.  First, I'll tell you the earth.  The earth actually generates an electromagnetic radiation field, part electrical, part magnetic and it emits it into the air.  It’s about up to 12 hertz. 

What is a hertz?  One hertz is one cycle per second.  So it generates about 12 cycles per second.  It’s like you look on an ocean and you can see waves on an ocean.  That’s a cycle.  So it can go up to 12.  

And it’s direct current, not alternating current.  It becomes more problematic with alternating current, not direct current.  DC versus AC.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  What’s the difference between a direct…?

Daniel:  Your house, when you plug something in the wall, you have a 110/120 volt, 60 cycle AC alternating current.  And your battery, when you have a battery in a device, that’s DC direct current, not AC.  So there's a difference in the sources of power, thus, differences in the way the emissions emanate.  So that’s the first one.  

There is no such thing as any more natural electromagnetic radiation in the world.  Everything else that’s in the environment is stuff we've produced.  So what is that?  Well, as I said, you have the wires in the wall, you have the lights, you have the overhead lights, you have the heavy power lines.  Those are all typically 60-cycle AC emissions.  It’s an electrical component and a wireless component.  

If you go next to a really high power wire and you take a fluorescent tube and you put it underneath it, it will light up.  There's so much power being emitted from the very high voltage wires.  Even though you can’t see it it’s really there.  

And therefore, don’t move into a house that has a high power line in the back because it’s the constant transmitted emissions that’s not good for your health.  So that’s the one kind.  

Then there's the manmade kind that we use to communicate.  When you have a cell phone, how does that cell phone work?  Well, it actually takes and transmits something in the air.  That something goes to a cell tower.  So what would happen?  What does that do?  

Around two gigahertz, that’s two billion cycles per second, is now touching the cell tower.  It’s an omnidirectional signal.  What that means is put your finger up and pretend there's a tiny little ball and the ball gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.  It can go up to five miles, that little transmitter can go up to five miles.  

I’m going to cut to the chase on this because you mentioned your children in your concern.  An adult male that uses a cell phone to their head the signal penetrates by one inch and heats it up by two degrees.  What do I mean by that?  

Well, 2.3 gigahertz is a microwave signal.  When you put a piece of meat into a microwave and you turn it on and it heats up something, in five minutes it’s really cooked.  What’s going on?  A 2.3 gigahertz signal is heating up the wall between the cells, oscillating the cells.  The cells get really fast and then cook the meat.  

Well, the cell phone is a microwave signal.  So the standard it can heat up for a 6-foot male is two degrees.  So if you're using a cell phone you may say after a half an hour, “Oh, my gosh.  My head, I can feel heat.”  That’s because it’s a microwave signal that’s heating up your head.  

Now, I’m going to go to your children.  You mentioned your concern with children.  Very much you should be concerned about that.  Why?  Because that same cell phone signal that can penetrate a male goes completely through a 6-year-old child’s head.  And the standards were only written to protect the thermal emission for a 6-foot male, not a 6-year-old child.  

But we know now from research the huge problem far beyond thermal increase is the biological increase.  That’s why you're hearing people getting various kinds of cancers related to these emissions.  It’s because there's a biological impact down to the cell level.  

So you have a cell tower that you connect to.  Well, if you have a tablet, you have a Wi-Fi transmitter connecting to the router wirelessly, if you're in your car and you're talking in front of your car through the Bluetooth connection, that’s a Bluetooth transmitter which is also Wi-Fi.  So you have actually three transmitters on your cell phone before you even start looking at any other technology, like tablets and laptops and everything else.  

All of the technologies that we hold near and dear to us, they are often very important parts of our lives.  We never planned to be so close and used so much by those so young.  All of a sudden we get to the point where our environment is changed very fundamentally over the last 10-15 years.  

15 years ago when I had a cell phone I would call someone, I couldn’t call anybody.  I didn’t have friends who had cell phones.  Today, 98% of people have cell phones.  So all of a sudden it’s permeating our lives.  So we have these signals that never existed in human nature and we’re ultimately becoming an experiment to see what happens.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So there's Wi-Fi signal, there's cellular signal, there's Bluetooth signal.  Are they all equally as powerful?

Daniel:  No.  Actually, no.  That’s a very good question.  The maximum level of cell phone connection can be is 1.6 watts per kilogram.  You may want to think of it as like I have to be able to go five miles so the power has to be strong enough to go about five miles.  

While the router, they only have to go 500-feet.  So the power levels are the same more or less.  

With Bluetooth they only can go about 30 feet.  So they're not 1.6 watts per kilogram.  They're 0.3 per kilogram, 10 times less.  So even though it’s less don’t be deceived.  0.3 watts per kilogram can be also dangerous to someone that has an exposure directly to the head for long periods of time.  It can cause mutated cells.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yeah, it took me a while to realize.  I thought if I turned Wi-Fi off on my desktop, in my laptop and my cell phone that it automatically protected me.  It took me a while to realize that I, in addition, have to manually turn off Bluetooth.

Daniel:  Absolutely.  A cell phone can generate all these things.  If you don’t use them turn them off.  The three times exposure becomes one time exposure.  That’s much better.  

And I'll talk about that a little bit more but here’s a little bit of insight.  In your environment to protect yourself, all you got to do is figure out where the transmitters are and just turn them off.  Just by turning off your immediate environment you are that much more protected.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yes.  It’s made a huge difference for me to make my home low in terms of the EMFs from everything we talked about but also televisions and speakers.  It’s really an endless list.

Daniel:  Oh, yeah.  You get these Apple TVs.  These…

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yes, Wi-Fi boosters.

Daniel:  Right.  They say just plug it in and everything works.  Well, they're transmitting a Wi-Fi signal.  Why not just get an internet wire and plug it in and eliminate that as a transmitter?  

In fact, I have a general rule of thumb to help people think about what you just mentioned.  I talk about it as bees in the room.  One bee can do very little to a human, unless you're allergic to it.  A thousand bees can kill you.  

So that analogy you should be thinking about in terms of transmitters in a room.  What transmitters can I turn off?  When I turn them off, I’m more likely to be less potentially damaged by those transmitters.  Very simple rule.  Easy to do.  And, as you pointed out, if you're not using Bluetooth, why do you have it on?  

Let me tell you, I used to never… I would not talk about dangers of Bluetooth because I couldn’t find any research to substantiate any claim one way or the other was it good or bad.  Some people would think that logically it’s less potentially dangerous, but that’s not necessarily true.  In fact, I found a research study that was done about 10 years ago.  It was an epidemiology study and what they looked at was concussed subjects.  In other words, the blood-brain barrier was down in the brain.  They wanted to know what power level could damage the cell within the brain.  

What they found, believe it or not, 0.1 watts per kilogram.  That’s three times less than a Bluetooth.  So when people argue that, “Oh, it’s much less power.  You’re much more safe.”  Well, that may be true for many, but for some of us it may not be true, particularly those who have a concussion that has damaged the blood-brain barrier of the brain.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So it took me a while to realize that human beings also have their own electromagnetic fields.  Can you talk more about how we are electrical beings too?  Because that helped me make sense of why these other emissions will interfere with my biology?

Daniel:  I'll talk about two things.  One is your body is like a capacitor.  A capacitor is something that takes energy in and holds it.  In our environment, there's a static power level all around us which we can absorb.  So there's a power level.  You may have heard of grounding, for example.  People get grounding pairs or they go outside and put their feet into the sand.  It’s more grounded.  Actually, what they're doing is dispelling, as a capacitor, the energy level that’s built up.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Does that really work?  Of course I've read about this.

Daniel:  Yes, it actually does.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So you can help get rid, release accumulated energy.

Daniel:  Energy looks for ground.  They look for a short to ground.  They want to find the fastest path.  Why does lightning hit the ground?  Because it would float around everywhere if it didn’t.  It always looks for a path to ground.  

Any electrical charge in your body, in the environment looks to ground and so there's that level of power that… so grounding in that case works.  

But grounding does not protect you from ELF, RF because the body doesn’t necessarily… when you have a cell phone to your head, you have a signal going into your head.  Even if you were grounded it’s still going into your head.  So it really does depend on what you’re doing.  

The second type is about this very thing, which is the influence of emission of RF signal to the cells of the body.  We’re learning a little bit more about that.  Why do we see neurological interference?  Why does your hand hurt when you pick up a cell phone?  Why does your head hurt or your eye hurt when it’s only close to the cell phone but not directly?  

The answers are emerging where there is damage to the cell.  We know about that.  We've documented in research that cells can be damaged, and I can explain the mechanics of that in a minute if you'd like to hear that.  But there's also in between the cells communication that allows the cells to interoperate.  Part of that is conductivity.  So like your whole body requires conductivity to work.  

One way of testing that is if you put your arm up and you have a friend push it down, it can be pretty resistant.  If you take your cell phone and put it right next to your heart, put your arm up, your friend can push it down easily.  That interferes with the signaling infrastructure of the body.  A simple test but proves that it really does influence and impact the body.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Wow.  Okay.  Why don’t you explain a bit about how it affects our cells?

Daniel:  Actually, a lot of research recently is talking about the mechanical breakdown of the cell and its influence on the immune system.  It actually suppresses the immune system, which is a recent understanding we have.  But it explains why people get worse all the time with exposure.  

If your immune system is down, a bug can get you better than if your immune system wasn’t suppressed.  But the way the cell works is the signal keeps on hitting the cell, the surface of the cell and it weakens the membrane.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  You said the signal.  It’s almost like pecking?

Daniel:  It’s almost pecking.  Yes.  I’m going to jump around and explain it to you.  When you talk about transmission, you're talking about an on-off transmission within the electromagnetic signal.  It’s a carrier for the signal itself.  And it’s a digital signal: on-off, on-off, on-off.  That on and off is a signal in itself so it starts breaking down the membrane.  

Then if the membrane gets diminished enough then the calcium channel penetrates the membrane.  Calcium within your body goes inside the cell.  What happens when that happens?  There's a buildup of chemicals and those chemicals ultimately mutates the cell or damages the DNA.  

So when you hear of electromagnetic radiation, there is a well known breakdown of the cell that can lead to DNA damage and mutated cells.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So our DNA probably is damaged frequently.  

Daniel:  Yes. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  But there's probably a tipping point.

Daniel:  Right.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Is that the concern?  Because I know people, when you first hear it damages DNA, that’s very alarming.  But at the same time our bodies are resilient but there's a point at which…

Daniel:  You're absolutely right.  If you were to ask me to tell you the 30 things of why this is really bad, no one can tell you that.  But I'll tell you the one that may be bad.  No one knows because of time.  

If you have a daughter that’s 10 or 12 years old and she has a cell phone in her pocket all the time, always transmitting, that potentially can damage her eggs, the cell in her eggs.  It can mutate the cell that is being exposed.  

That cell can get damaged and that can repair itself, so no problems yet, but now it’s a mutated cell.  So your daughter goes and has a child and there's new DNA that wasn’t your DNA.  So there's a little bit of concern in that because these emissions do damage the cell, mutates the cell, that they can be passed on to _____ [unintelligible 25:42] generations.  

There were some research that say this is a catastrophic problem three generations from now.  I don’t believe that.  The reason why is your daughter and every other daughter that’s 12 years old has to be exposed and have cell phones in their pocket.  That’s not the case.  So I don't think it’s catastrophic but I certainly believe it can happen.  We know the research shows it can happen.  And you should be slightly diligent.  Make sure that those exposures are not occurring to a young woman.  

Interestingly enough, I often work with physicians.  They called me one day and they said there was this professional young woman who came in their office pregnant.  But she was a real business lady.  She always had a laptop in her lap, always using her cell phone.  And she had a child that passed away almost immediately.  They couldn’t figure out why because there were all these strange DNA that they couldn’t explain.  They concluded that it was potentially a cause was because she had all of these electronics near her.  

So they called me up and let me know that they actually found a case that they actually think is legitimate.  By the way, that’s not statistical.  That’s not something that’s legitimate.  It’s _____ [27:19] at best.  

Interesting point, though, several years later she had another child who was fine.  What they did was they cleaned up her environment.  They went and told her get away from your laptops, wire everything in the household, eliminate the bees in the room.  For her, it worked.  

So I think it’s serious and should be seriously considered when bringing a cell phone to a child.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  It’s great that if she miscarried because of high EMF exposures her body was able to later have a healthy child.  That’s like a case for resiliency.  But I was wondering, even with a child who prenatally was exposed to lots of cell phone radiation and maybe carries damaged DNA, don’t we biologically have the ability to get rid of damaged DNA?

Daniel:  Yeah.  Much of that does happen.  But remember when there's a repair it doesn’t mean it’s repaired to what it was.  It repairs to something.  We can’t predict what that is.  

By the way, pregnant women, early stages of pregnancy, they are three times more likely to have a miscarriage than the average population if they’re exposed to high levels of emission.  That was out of San Francisco two years ago.  So you want to watch these emissions around you because they do influence your health.  

Another thing that popped in mind when you were talking, I wanted to mention that because you have a female audience.  But the other thing that is also… you’ve probably heard of ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s all going up.  There is an argument that, upon conception, excess exposure to emissions to the womb begins influencing the growing child.  So it’s not just when they're out of the womb we got to worry about it, you also may want to worry about it within the womb as well, because some research is arguing influence can happen as early as within the womb.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Have you heard of the work by Dr. Hugh Taylor at Yale University?

Daniel:  No, I don't think I have.  What’s his concept?

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  He's an ob-gyn who did a study in mice and found that mice exposed to cell phone radiation in utero had a higher chance of developing ADHD.  So it was proven in mice.

Daniel:  Yeah.  But the reason why I don't say it definitively is it’s statistically not significant.  But there are many, many studies that show that linkage.  There are many studies that show Alzheimer’s linkage.  Many studies, ADHD, leukemia.  We have many, many studies but the problem is they're not statistically significant enough for it to be a fact in science.  That’s why there's still this debate that’s going on about is it a problem or not.  

Over the last two years, I was in more debates about this than I'd like to believe I was.  You know, I’m always invited to a debate.  But there were epidemiology studies that came out by the federal government where they took statistically significant populations, epidemiology population and they had cell towers.  There were exposures over some periods of time for a population that were not being exposed and a population that was and there was statistically significant differences that were related to tumors.  Frontal lobe cancer of the brain and the heart, believe it or not.  

So there was one $25 million study by the National Toxicity Program, which is the federal government, that said, hey, this seems pretty statistically significant.  

Then in Italy, the Ramazzini Institute actually replicated the same kind of results.  So there are growing statistically significant work that’s going on worldwide that is beginning to clearly state linkages.  

And by the way, at this point I always like to tell the story that why don’t we have statistics?  Well, here’s why.  I would need to take 10,000 children, expose them, feed them organic meals, so there's no damaged food, and radiate them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for one year.  And I'd have to have another population that I could compare it to.  What I would after the year I would see who dies.  Obviously, we’re not going to do that, right?  But that is a statistically significant sample base, what you kind of need to prove your point.  That doesn’t exist because we never had large populations like this study because exposures are only in the last 10-15 years.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  And it takes at least 15-20 years for health issues to manifest.

Daniel:  Yeah.  I love to tell the story I used to smoke cigarettes when I was 12 years old because I wanted to be a big man.  At that time, absolutely nowhere was there common knowledge of the linkage between cancer and smoking cigarettes.  None.  Do you know, at that time, there was evidence?  It wasn’t statistically significant but there was clear evidence of the linkage.  It took 40 years before anybody sort of said, hey, this is a serious problem.  The reason why it was because the courts started declaring the linkings not because the science didn’t know.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So since you were young adult going through the public learning that cigarette smoking, which they previous thought was safe then later, now, the public accepts that cigarette smoking comes with high health risks, do you think that the public’s awareness and maybe future acceptance of the health risks from our manmade EMF exposures is a similar time frame or does it seem much slower?

Daniel:  Let me give you another story to set the stage of mindset at the time.  In 1978 or 1979, I don't recall, the head of Philip Morris, the chairman of Philip Morris was in front of a group of pediatricians in the U.K.  They asked him if a woman smokes while she's pregnant, is that a problem.  His answer was, “Absolutely not.  But the baby will be born smaller, and what woman wouldn’t want a smaller baby?”  That was his answer to the panel.  

So the mindset was, “Oh, okay.  That seems to make sense.”  But over time it changed.  

I actually see that happening now.  Five years ago when I started off, I've been in this business quite a number of years but five years ago I actually began trying to find ways of understanding and trying to find ways of dealing with it in our lives.  From that time until up to last year, it was awfully difficult to try to get people to listen to the story.  But ever since 5G has been touted as being our next panacea, it turns out that we’re getting a lot more people interested in trying to understand this so they can make intelligent choices in their lives.  So, yes, it’s changing

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  That’s great.

Daniel:  By the way, they're starting to lose in court.  In Italy, there was a case last year.  There was a direct link and award given to someone who passed away from a blastoma cancer.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I think it’s very difficult for not only the average person but also physicians to make sense of the conflicting expert opinions, and the public, but it was very helpful for me to learn that of the body of science that exists, governments around the world have been reacting differently.

Daniel:  There's no question.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I’m well aware of how the government in the U.S. reacts.  But even there's differences with states.  Some states like Berkeley has been proactive about the public’s right to know.  But it was so helpful to learn that other countries have decided to have precautionary measures in place to protect multiple segments.

Daniel:  Absolutely.  It’s really funny you say that.  The U.S. is slow.  Most of the world outside of the U.S. had been far more cautious about these emissions.  In fact, remember I say 1.6 watt per kilogram?  Well, there's power level like that but twice the space.  So it’s half the load, essentially, to the body.  

So in general worldwide, the dangers of the exposures are far less dangerous than they are in the U.S.  But you're absolutely right.  In Spain, for example, they don’t let Wi-Fi in classrooms.  They don’t let it in classrooms because there's not sufficient evidence that say it’s good or bad, and they're not risking it.  That’s an example of lots of instances in Europe where there's caution.  There's far more precaution than there is in the U.S.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I'd like to summarize health risks in terms of, first, what… there's a list of health risks where the science is pretty strong and then there's a list of health risks that scientists are looking more seriously into, but the sciences and we don’t know enough yet.  Then there's also just a group of people who are just sensitive.  If you could talk about what are the health outcomes where there's strong evidence, what are some of the health concerns that we’re looking into because the science is indicating more research is needed.  

And then of those people who are sensitive, what are some of the common symptoms so that people listening might, if they're experiencing a number of these symptoms, they might realize, oh, maybe it’s the EMFs in my home.

Daniel:  Okay.  That’s a very important question.  I'll try to answer it.  

It turns out that you can smell it, touch it, feel it, taste it.  So a lot of us are being exposed all the time and there's virtually no way of us knowing or feeling it.  If you are having these devices close to your body and they're becoming damaged, likely you won’t feel it.  Remember we talked about the cell breakdown with the calcium penetrating?  That will occur and you won’t even know it.  

So there are so many symptoms that are really undetectable almost until it’s too late.  And that tends to be the majority of exposures.  

But there are only 20% of us, over 20% of us that are electric hypersensitive.  So what does that mean?  20% of us will go use a laptop and a keyboard and they’ll feel tingling in their fingers.  Their eyes may hurt.  They may get headaches.  So they're hypersensitive in a way where the cells are now saying, “I shouldn’t be exposed to this stuff.”  

By the way, of that 20%, 80% are women.  It’s really interesting how it’s women who are hypersensitive more so than men.  We’re trying to understand why and actually no one knows why yet.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So are people studying how women are uniquely…

Daniel:  Actually, I have people we work with who’s trying to figure out why women, not men.  Some are postulating.  You know we talked about the breakdown of the cell?  And then you asked me about conductivity.  In between the cells is the water we talked about.  Well, that’s a conduit for a lot of stuff, minerals.  A lot of dynamics to the body are between the cells.  

When I talk about melatonin not being disrupted from a cell phone when you're next to your bed, never sleep with the cell phone next to your bed because it’s screwing around with your melatonin.  It’s not that cells are going to break down and break apart.  There's over 4,000 system functions within the body that are being influenced adversely from that exposure.  

So we know that there can be lots and lots of symptoms.  You can feel foggy brain.  Neurologically, you can feel temporarily stuck going on that is disruptive but not serious.  

Then of course we talked about the potentials with the tumors and other things which are long term.  Alzheimer’s is long term.  There's lots of research recently that’s talking about the direct link to Alzheimer’s.  As I mentioned before, children being exposed at an early age having autism as a result of their exposure.  

Believe it or not, if you're in the 20%, there are ways in dealing with it by what we talked about before.  Avoid it.  Take it out of the room.  And those symptoms you have, the headaches you're constantly getting, they actually will go down.  Believe it or not, you may be able to sleep.  

I was talking with a person, an Sophia Ruan Gushée about two months ago and I said move your cell phone away from your bed.  She listened very politely and then she was saying, “Yes, yes, yes.  Tell me more.”  And two months later she called me back and she said, “I can’t believe it.  I took the bees out of the room and I’m sleeping.  My husband and I are sleeping.”  

I said, “That’s right.  It doesn’t take much to disrupt your body function.”

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yeah.  I run a 7-Night Airplane Mode Challenge and people who sign up just get an email every night reminding them about turning their cell phone at airplane mode.  It’s meant to be a public awareness campaign so they learn a little bit more.  But as a result, I do hear from people who say after one night they slept better.  

Daniel:  Almost instantly it occurs.  And hypersensitive.  I have worked with a doctor, Dr. _____ [44:03], really, really hypersensitive.  He called up the other day and he said he put a wire in to his computer and eliminated the Wi-Fi.  He got a screen, pushed it away from him and auxiliary keyboard.  All the things you're supposed to do to minimize.  Then he said, “But my head hurts.  I’m still getting headaches.”  

I said, “How old is your monitor?”  

“Oh, it’s about 10 years old.”  

I said, “That’s the problem.  It’s emitting twice what current monitors emit.”  

He went and bought another one, the headaches went away.  So there are simple things you can do to minimize those exposures and they really do work.  In fact, here’s a very important rule.  When you have a cell phone to your head, or any device that’s transmitting, the most danger is when you have it on your body, particularly if it’s long periods of time.  If you take it and put away just one foot, 80% of the potential danger is gone.  Why?  The power level dropped so quickly that it becomes less more damaging, potentially, to the cells in your brain.  They're still there but it’s 80% less danger.  By four feet, 98%.  

So you work trying to take the things away from you in your house, they really, really do protect you and your family.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  And cordless phones can emit high emissions, too, right?

Daniel:  Oh, yeah.  Those are concentrated emissions too.  They're at 2.8 gigahertz or 5 gigahertz.  There's a bunch of transmissions they use.  And those power levels are not as much as the Wi-Fi but they always on.  So if you're going to use wireless phones, make sure they're away from you, not right next to you.  That’s better than having them next to you and you're reducing the potential danger simply by pushing them away.  

I use corded phones, believe it or not, so I eliminate the potential transmission in my environment as a precautionary measure.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I use corded phones too.

Daniel:  Do you really?  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yeah.  And cable connections everywhere.  And my Wi-Fi router is on ‘Off’ most of the time and we have a switch just so my husband can turn it on.  He hasn’t really adapted as quickly.

Daniel:  Well, tell him to get a timer.  I always tell people to get a timer, turn it off at 10:00 at night, turn it back on at 7:00 in the morning.  You don’t need it and you're eliminating the multiple bees in that room as a result of it.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Right.  I was wondering because my Wi-Fi router is off most of the time but then when I use my cell phone… and usually my cell phone is on airplane mode, but I turn it off airplane mode if I need to check emails or maybe I’m reading an online newspaper.  Then I wondered is it better to turn the Wi-Fi router on and use my Wi-Fi connection rather than cellular, because cellular will extend up to five miles?

Daniel:  Yes, more power level.  Right.  If your Wi-Fi is more than 10 feet away, you're pretty safe.  And having your cell tower connection in airplane mode and using Wi-Fi is better, but it’s not great.  Really, if you can avoid it, I turn mine off complete.  I make sure when I have a cell phone it’s far enough away.  I’m not even thinking about it.  That’s simple mechanical thing is easy for me to do and, again, it minimizes my risks.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  I wanted to get your opinion on a few types of EMF protection products.  There are various kinds of things you can adhere to a cell phone: chips, stickers, crystals.  Do you think they help?  I know it’s hard to generalize, but in theory.

Daniel:  I will generalize.  Many, if not most, make a claim that’s not substantiated in science.  You really, really want to make sure that there is an independent assessment of the claim that substantiates the claim being made by the product.  Does a crystal work?  Does a button work? The ones we've tested don’t.  You may be able to find some that do work but I caution you, you really should… 

Many of these there's a description of what it does that makes no sense in physics.  So when I talk about doing something that’s effective, I talk about creating an environment which eliminates the signal.  There's an engineering definition of what I’m doing.  Many, if not most, of the devices you just asked about, they really don’t have that.  That doesn’t mean to say they don’t work but you really want an engineering research expert that independently verifies the claim.  That’s the best I can suggest.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Thank you.  And there's a theory that some products, like certain crystals, can strengthen your electromagnetic field to help you be a little more resilient to external ones.  Does that make sense to you?

Daniel:  No.  It’s not physics.  When it’s talked about in a cloudy way, I don't understand what you're saying.  Explain it to me.  I know what electromagnetic is _____ [50:53] communications that has power levels that are on X, Y, and Z that I can look at.  So physical things I can look at to substantiate the claim.  But when I hear that there is a product that’s changing your electromagnetic radiation field… by the way, you don’t really have one.  Mostly yours is not a three-dimensional electromagnetic.  It’s more electrical.  So when they talk about that, I just don’t know what they're talking about.  It may be true that it works.  

By the way, for example, if you told me that you had a piece of carbon and you put it in your pocket, a big piece of carbon, and it made you feel better, I would say I understand that.  Carbon is an absorption function of RF so that would make some sense to me.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Does carbon absorb meaningful amount of RF?

Daniel:  It can.  Particularly the residual stuff that is disruptive to the body.  There are not many things like that on the market but it’s legitimately true.  It’s been since the beginning of time.  Carbon absorbs this stuff. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  There's a black crystal called shungite.  I don't know if you've heard of it. 

Daniel:  Yeah, that’s carbon based.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  That’s a popular…

Daniel:  There may be something legitimate about that because I understand the mechanical properties, the mineral properties of that product.  But it’s certainly not ‘this makes me feel better’ is a good reason why you should use it.  

For example, you feel better when you're grounded, maybe, but if you're using your cell phone 12 hours a day on your head you will pass away soon because of the DNA damaged cells that have been occurring.  So there's no protection.  Even though they say you're grounded, and you are grounded, it doesn’t give you the protection.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So if carbon does absorb RF, does it help to have more carbon in like around the computer?

Daniel:  There's no research that’s said that’s true but I would think it may.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  What are your thoughts on earthing and grounding products?  

Daniel:  That’s what I mentioned before.  I actually believe that there is a function for grounding.  In fact, one of the inventors of grounding I met one time and we had a bit of an argument.  He wasn’t an engineer.  He was making claims about what it did and what it didn’t do.  He was right about some, from an engineer, and that’s the body is a capacitor and there is a discharge if there's a grounding pair.  I believe in that.  

I actually believe that, for some reason or other, you're more of a capacitor than I am.  I don't know why.  And you putting your foot on makes you feel better and you feel it and it’s legitimately happy.  I don't absorb it as much as you so I don't need to put my foot on the ground.  

And the grounding pair, by the way, that’s literally short to ground.  When you plug that into the wall, that is a wire that goes to your box, your wire box that’s grounded since put it in the ground.  It’s a grounding pair.  That’s what it is. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So it could help?  Are there any risks of it harming?

Daniel:  No, no.  It’s perfectly safe.  But don’t be fooled.  Don’t have two routers, there's one on the left and one on the right and your head in the middle because that’s not a good thing.  But if you are imbalanced and tired, you tend to be a high capacitor, you'll feel the benefits of it quickly.  I know many people who do and I understand what it’s doing.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  So I was wondering with some of these products like the DefenderShield or even I know your company also sells cases for phones, what does it do to the radiation?  Does it redirect it so I need to be careful of the antenna where it’s pointing?

Daniel:  No.  My approach to protection is very simple.  Remember I mentioned to you all these transmissions are omnidirectional?  They go in all directions.  What I do is simply stop the direction toward the body.  It’s still going to the cell tower with the cell phone but I’m not allowing that transmission and I’m stopping it right at the source.  And I’m preventing that from going into your head.  

What I’m doing with the power?  I’m converting it to heat.  You can’t feel it.  It’s such miniscule heat.  But, as you may know, power has to go somewhere.  It doesn’t just disappear.  It’s getting transferred somewhere.  So I use technologies that allow it to actually convert it and dissipate the heat.  As simple as that.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So it’s not like the antenna is exerting extra strong power.

Daniel:  No, no.  I like to explain that a little bit.  There are some that believe, all of a sudden, you improve the antenna, and it’s really, really bad because you did.  That’s not true at all.  If you improve the antenna, you reduce the power level of 1.6 watts to a third.  It actually reduces the power level if it acts as an antenna.  

There are some that drain the power out of the cell phone.  Those can be dangerous.  So if it’s not controlled right it really does increase the power level.  But it can’t go over 1.6 watts kilogram.  So if you're right next to a cell tower, you're a block away, it’s a third of 1.6 watts.  If you're five miles away, it’s 1.6 watts.  

So it modulates based on where it is and location of your cell phone to the cell tower.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  There are also fabrics that claim to help ground you.  Then there are also fabrics that can block, like shields you from… I don't know if it’s all concerning of EMFs but there are blankets or clothes, fabrics you can maybe sew onto your curtains.  Do you feel like those are protective or only from one kind of…?

Daniel:  Yeah.  Almost all of them are conductive.  They’re made out of copper, made out of silver, made out of something that’s conductive.  Why?  Because when an RF signal hits it, it’s conducted into the power.  

Some are very expensive and very good.  Others, most are not.  So you really got to watch the grade of stuff you're getting and to really look for the kind of shielding performance.  When it’s shielding, it’s really capturing it and conducting it.  

Many fabrics for your windows, for example, tend not to be very good.  But if you look at some materials that you can get on rolls designed for this, they actually can improve it and may be useful in reducing the bees from another house that may be _____ [59:27].

What it won’t do is protect you from extremely low frequency stuff.  Remember, I mentioned the wire in the wall?  These fabrics don’t conduct into the fabric very well.  So when someone claims that you eliminate all the RF signals in the room and you want to eliminate the emissions from the light bulb, putting a screen like that in won’t work because it’s not conductive.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So are you talking about what’s usually referred to as dirty electricity from light bulbs?

Daniel:  No, actually I hate dirty electricity because it’s not a scientific term.  It’s like because someone wants to say it’s not good for you they use the term ‘dirty’.  We know exactly what all the transmitter sources are, but dirty electricity tends to be the combination of extremely low frequency stuff and the RF stuff.  It’s a combination of both.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Do you think that dirty electricity filters work?

Daniel:  No.  Many that I've seen that make the claims they make cannot be substantiated.  Like for example, I had something plugged into the wall and I’m in the middle of the room and I got a Wi-Fi at the other end of the room.  Having that thing that’s protecting me in the wall is not very good at protecting me because the signals coming from the other end of the room are coming right through me.  

So tell me again how it helps you?  It doesn’t.  The claim says I'll be safer but it’s not necessarily true at all.  

Really, it depends on how you put the technologies around you as much as it is the devices you're using.  Put them correctly around you and you minimize the load.  You minimize the dangers simply by precautionary measures.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I bought a meter to measure the dirty electricity and it was extraordinarily high.  I don't remember the units but it was over like 1200 from my first outlet.  I did it and it took me a long time to get around to considering dirty electricity but I was feeling so sick in my own home, especially in my office.  

It got to a point where I avoided my office but my printer was here, so I would just come into my office when I needed to print something.  But I knew I had to do it within 45 minutes because after 45 minutes I could not stay.  Like my heart really hurt and my tongue would go numb.  I had certain symptoms.  

Then the first time I measured the outlet in my office I was really alarmed at the 1200 number because the pamphlet said a healthy measurement is below 50.  Then I put the dirty electricity filter in the outlet and I just felt this relief of pressure from my chest.  So then I bought more because I felt it, and then I started sleeping.  I finally started sleeping.

Daniel:  That’s actually it’s taking the stuff around you and giving a path to ground, which has actually helped.  It’s helpful enough where it works for you.  But that doesn’t necessarily mean you shouldn’t turn your router off.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yeah.  I do that.

Daniel:  For the very reason I said, right?

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Well, that’s the thing.  I did everything with like RF and ELF.  It helped a lot.  I now know my symptoms… you know how some people they drink milk and their tummy hurts and they just know.  If they ate something and they didn’t realize milk was in it, they realize, “Oh, there must have been milk in there because my tummy does this when I have milk.”  

I now know when I’m around Bluetooth and other EMFs because I took the break, I felt a lot better.  Then when I’m re-exposed, certain symptoms come like Bluetooth exposures. 

Daniel:  Right.  You're one of those more hypersensitive.  It’s a tough place for you.  You really have to be very conscientious to making sure that you manage your environment.  And I'll tell you why.  Next year will be worse.  If you don’t stop managing it now, it gets worse and worse and worse for you and it really can be quite debilitating.  

So I applaud you taking the action you did because it really does help your body stabilize enough where it can deal with exposures better. 

By the way, when you smell gas or perfumes, does that bother you?

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yeah.

Daniel:  You know why?  100% of us who are hypersensitive are multiple chemically sensitive.  Believe it or not, they're susceptible to multiple organic compounds.  Because of that, you may want to think about your air environment.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Well, I wrote a 500-page book on our toxic exposures.

Daniel:  Right.  Exactly.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I’m generally a very healthy, resilient person but, over 10 years, I not only studied… and I studied the toxic exposures from what we buy and do, what we can control while I had three children.  I barely slept because I was so alarmed at what I was learning.

Daniel:  The children or the toxins?

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  No.  They're the inspiration.  And for so long I worked with a laptop on my lap plugged into an outlet.  I just think the 10 years of no sleep, working so much with technology on me, and breastfeeding and pregnancy, it just wore me down so that now I’m super sensitive.  I often think, in terms of evolution, I’m a canary in the coal mine.

Daniel:  There's no question about it.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Because children are so vulnerable but they don’t have the words and experience to be able to say I maybe don’t feel well because of some exposure that we actually could eliminate or really reduce.

Daniel:  And it’s not hard to do.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yes, it’s not hard to do.

Daniel:  I've known many who are hypersensitive like you, and it just gets worse for them.  If they don’t take the action to minimize those exposures then their lifestyle changes.  

So we don’t know if your kids who are going to be exposed feel it the way you do.  We don’t know if it’s genetic.  We don’t know if it’s because you're female.  We don’t know if it’s because of other complements in your environment.  But what we know for sure is it’s environmental.  So you have to try to adjust your environment to minimize those exposures if you can. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  What do you think I could do to build up my resiliency?  Like more grounding and… 

Daniel:  In recent years, I talk about manage your environment.  You have.  So you're aware of all the physical things you can do to change.  What’s always bothered me was the hypersensitive.  I can get it so they can live in their environment but I can’t fix it.  

So one of the things I've been doing is working with a biochemist, a neurologist and an eye doctor.  Because of blue light, as you know, you have macular degeneration prematurely with that.  You have dry eye because of that.  So you really want to start understanding those as areas that can bother you.

But it’s true that you need to make sure that you manage that when you can, and it’s only going to become worse over time.  With all the technologies all around us and the technology evolution… we haven't even talked about 5G.  I'll talk about it in a couple minutes because it’s important for your listening audience.  

5G is the fifth generation of cell phone communications.  1G was an analog signal.  It meant it went up and down in a cycle.  That’s like taking a 10,000 pound steel bar, putting on a piece of concrete and the concrete won’t break.  

2 to 4G, which are the next generations, became digital signals.  So those digital signals became on and off, on and off.  So what is that?  That’s the same 10,000 pounds of concrete but it’s going up and down up and down.  It’s becoming a jackhammer.  That’s why the cells and the body react more negatively to 2 to 4G than 1G.  

5G is coming along.  We talked about 2 gigahertz is two billion cycles per second.  Well, 5G goes up to 300 gigahertz.  That’s 300 billion cycles per second.  But what’s also true is the algorithms they use to encode and decode the signal this is actually two on-off, on-off.  So it’s MIMO, Multiple In, Multiple Out.  You have not only just a faster speed but you now have on-off, on-off that will be hitting the cells at the same time.  

Is that good?  I don't know.  No one can tell you if it’s good or bad because no one has any research.  So 5G is a big human experiment that’s going on without any real justification of saying, which of course as you can tell in my voice, I’m not too happy about it.  

But I do know this, for example.  If I had a 90 gigahertz transmission directed towards you, your sweat glands which are like helical inserts on the surface of your skin, access an antenna at 90 gigahertz.  So it absorbs that transmission and it’s not 80 gigahertz.  It’s not 100 gigahertz.  It’s 90 gigahertz, which is smack dab in the middle of 5G.  

What happens?  Your skin gets really, really hot.  What is that?  That’s crowd control.  That’s what we use for crowd control.  We use a 90-gigahertz signal that we project towards a crowd to disperse the crowd.  So we know that certain technology speeds are going to have a different impact than others.  Here’s one example of one.  

It’s also true, by the way, that if you’re near a cell tower within a thousand feet, those who are within a thousand feet of a cell tower are three times more likely to have cancer.  With 5G, they have to be 850 feet separate because those 5G signals can’t go very far.  So they're going to be every couple of houses.  Literally, it’s true.  

What we also know is bugs, viruses, bacteria, they like the faster speeds.  In fact they flourish in those higher speeds.  I’m not sure we do.  In fact, I know the reverse is true.  

So there are a lot of kinds of potential symptomatic problems in the future as we evolve these technologies that we got to be worried about at managing in your life.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I live in New York City where they're rolling out 5G.  Do I have the right to know where… what can I do?  I mean, I can’t…

Daniel:  I'll tell you a story.  The neurologist I mentioned before, he called me on a Saturday morning one day and he said, “My head is killing me.”  He had just moved in to a little place in the mountains somewhere and he said, “Something is going on in my environment.  I can’t figure it out.”  

I said, “Go to your router.”  

He went near the router, he looked underneath it and it was a 5G router.  They actually eliminated the wires to his building and they had a wireless connection to a 5G cell tower.  

And I say, “Get it out of your office.”  Get it out of your house, I mean.  He took it out.  Two hours later he was fine.  

So do not get a 5G service if you can avoid it because that distance is your friend, as I've said before.  Distance is a friend.  You want to minimize that, particularly you want to minimize this.  In fact, I call the 5G bees in the room to be the Mexican bee coming across killer bee because it’s so different than all the other bees in our environment.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Will these shielding fabrics help protect against 5G?

Daniel:  The stuff you are talking about is probably good up to 10-20 gigahertz.  In New York it could be somewhere between 23 and 38, so it’s close.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Can you design something to help protect us from 5G?

Daniel:  I’m sure people are going to do that.  Everyone is working on it, including us.  But the technologies we have to apply are very different than the technology we worked on in the past unfortunately.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I heard in Singapore, I don't know if this is true, but pregnant women are required to wear shielding material around their belly.

Daniel:  Yeah. I just told you why.  You're three times more likely to have a miscarriage.  Three times more likely on a standard RF signal.  That’s scary stuff.  In fact, there, along with other parts of Europe, they have clothing that you can buy for that kind of protection.  And it’s normal _____ [1:15:44].  It’s not like this obscure thing that exists.  There are companies building this stuff for that very purpose.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So if I want to buy some, what should I look for to identify ones that are effective?  Like would they be certified?

Daniel:  Look at the technical term, DB, decibels.  If it’s above 40 or 50 decibels in its capacity then it’s probably pretty good.  That’s starting to be pretty high.  But if it’s 10 it’s doing nothing.  It’s a little simple measurement.  Many of them have that data there but you make sure you look for it.  At about 70 it’s almost 100% shielding.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  You should make caps so we can put them on our children’s heads when they walk around. 

Daniel:  I don't know.  We actually have children’s ear buds we build because it disturbs me so much that kids are using this stuff at such an early age.  We know that there are neurological behavioral problems.  

In the U.S. we never talk about behavioral problems related to electromagnetic radiation.  In Europe it’s a general discussion.  A fact, there is a clear, well-understood perspective in Europe and measures and metrics to establish the potential dangers to kids with this kind of stuff, so it’s really interesting.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I know you have eye glasses to help protect eyes from the blue light.  Is that right?

Daniel:  Right. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Are all the eyeglasses, are all the lenses do they have the yellow tint?  Do you have any that aren’t yellow?  

Daniel:  Science says there's no way getting around yellow.  But what we’re doing is we’re around 440 nanometers.  So you have to take that slice, and ultraviolet light that’s the strongest visible light.  That’s considered a cause of death.  So we’re right below that with blue.  

And the reason why it has such an impact to us is because it is the strongest of the visible light.  So we do shield.  But does it have to be the dark light?  Does it have to be dark yellow versus the white yellow?  The answer is it depends.  

At night if you were reading your laptop or your tablet right before you go into bed, you definitely want to use the dark.  Why?  Because it’s fooling around with your circadian rhythm and that’s what you're trying to minimize the impact to that.  

It also impacts melatonin.  It disrupts those functions.  So you really, at night, want to make sure you're protected.  During the day, you can use the ones that are only light yellow and that’s roughly 50%.  The really dark lens are 99%.  50% is more than adequate during the day, believe it or not.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Is there any reason not to just use the dark yellow ones all day?

Daniel:  You can use it all day.  If you wanted to, you can use it all day and you're fine.  A lot of people have preferences, though.  You may not want to have that dark light but I use the light ones.  Most of the time I don’t read at night so I don’t worry about it.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  I’m wondering do you use a microwave oven?

Daniel:  No.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Because of the radiation or because it changes the food?

Daniel:  No.  It takes food, the cells of the food and converts it into a carcinogenic so why would I eat it?  I heat in traditional ovens.  I don't use microwave.  And it’s not because they leak.  It’s because of the impact to the food I’m cooking.  It’s been known for 40 years that you convert the cell into a potential dangerous substance as a result.  Not that it will always do that but you run the risk of doing that.  

So rather than run any risk, I just put it in the oven and heat it up at 375 and I’m done.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Is it true that Russia banned microwaves.

Daniel:  Yeah.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  That is true?

Daniel:  Yeah.  Russia was one of the leading countries that understood microwave and its impact in a human.  Most of the research that we know about come from Russia.  

And by the way, I think you were hinting before about the leaking microwave.  They do leak.  As you probably know, one way of telling is put your cell phone in there, close the microwave and call your cell phone.  If it rings it’s leaking.  Because cell phone uses a microwave signal.  

So they leak.  But just stay away from it a little bit and you're fine.  Don’t stand next to it.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  What are your thoughts on electric cars and the electromagnetic fields?  Cars, in general, have become like computers.  

Daniel:  I actually was hinting about that a little bit before when I talked about 12 hertz DC.  I said it’s less dangerous.  Well, actually that’s not necessarily true.  12 hertz and below is less dangerous.  

In cars, they're using 12 volts.  And the 12 volts that’s a DC, direct current, is driving a motor.  A motor is winding and the windings create electromagnetic emissions.  But it’s direct current emissions.  It’s not sign wave emissions.  

Research tells you that the cell itself can’t tell the difference between a magnetic or an electrical signal.  Because that’s true, I always make the assumption we can’t differentiate.  They're the same.  We know electromagnetic bothers you, so will just electric, so will just magnetic.  So the _____ [1:22:59] my guess is you would feel disruptive because of your hypersensitivity.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yeah, I feel awful in an electric environment. 

Daniel:  I could easily tell, yeah.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Do you have any recommendations for what I could do to feel better in the car?  Because I think I have my children feel really bad too.

Daniel:  Do they really?

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Yeah.  It’s hard to know how much of it is just being car sick, like kids...

Daniel:  No, it’s not car sick.  There is no question whatsoever.  Your cells can’t tell the difference.  Dr. Paul who is the researcher who does a lot of the cell damage mechanics, he often talks about the cell reacts whether it’s magnetic or electric.  It doesn’t know the difference.  So when you're talking about you feel something when you're in the car, I guarantee you you feel something, particularly you.  

Can you do something about it?  What I can tell you is it’s not going to create a DNA damaged cell.  It will not have that influence.  But you're a canary not feeling so good is really more of what it is.  It’s a temporary feeling.  It’s not dangerous to your body and long-term health but it is temporary and it’s real.  And there's nothing you can do about it that I know of, because it’s a 12-volt DC.  You need to have a whole line car with the materials I've built.  That’s the only way you can _____ [1:24:45].  And you can’t afford it. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  What about virtual reality?  What should we be concerned about?

Daniel:  I’m not sure this answers your question exactly but it is directly related to 5G.  They're talking about the internet of things.  The internet of things is where everything can talk to everything.  You want to know something about your refrigerator, your doctor wants to know something about your health, everything can talk to everything.  

Well, one of the concerns is that it starts going against privacy level stuff.  So that’s one level.  But the other more directly related to the question you just had was can it influence my mind at some frequency rate?  I know that science it talks about influence like that.  Whether it’s in the 300 hertz and below range, I just I don't know.  Well, I can’t until they respond to that.  

But I can tell you it’s used in warfare and it’s typically under 500 hertz.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  I think this is my last question.  For windows, there's a film you can adhere to the window to help block out things.  Do you think that is helpful?

Daniel:  Those are about 10 to 20%, at most, effective.  It’s one of those things if it can’t be 100 I’m not sure there's a benefit at 20.  That tends to be the problem with those things.  But in your case it may be what you need.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So maybe I’m better off spending the money on really effective fabric for the back of the curtains.

Daniel:  Yeah.  In New York, in your case you have bees outside you or outside your house, and there are a lot.  Having a fabric that you line the interior of your space is definitely going to be something you'll gain the benefits of.  Even if it’s 50%, in your case it’s a substantial improvement. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  Then there's shielding paint, right?

Daniel:  The paint is not so good.  But again, what they do with that paint it’s actually a conduit.  They put aluminum in so it finds a grounding pad.  There is some benefit to it but they're not that great.  In your case, if you can afford it, I would go with the drops, that material drops.  You can put it in drapes.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  We do have a wall that emits a lot of something from the electrical wiring, so we use shielding paint for that.

Daniel:  Did it work?  Probably not.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I did have someone come and measure after.

Daniel:  It probably did because it’s 60 hertz if it’s electrical wiring. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So would the fabric help?

Daniel:  No.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Nothing would help?

Daniel:  No.  That’s the problem.  It’s very, very hard to shield 60 cycle.  Very hard.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So just don’t have the child’s head near that wall.

Daniel:  Believe it or not, that’s what I say.  People worry about these meters, those smart meters they get all upset about.  I said if it’s on the garage wall and it’s 20 feet away from you, there's absolutely nothing to worry about.  If it’s on your bedroom outer wall, move the bed.  Go to another room if you can, because that pain all night can disrupt your sleep.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  That reminds me, I received an email from someone who read an article on my website.  His wife is pregnant and they have a one-year-old.  He's worried about, he said there are like 20 smart meters aggregated outside one of their bedroom walls and he's wondering what he should do.  I was going to refer him to a real expert who can measure but I was just wondering what your thoughts are.  Smart meters come up often. 

Daniel:  That’s why I mentioned it.  Smart meters are RF.  The meters themselves are ELF.  You have to shield both.  As I said, the RF you may be able to do with a fabric.  And even though there may be many, many transmitters, that fabric is going to be big enough and broad enough to probably minimize, if not eliminate, those in the direction of this inside the place.  

The shielding of the 60 cycle that’s really, really hard to do.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So distance.

Daniel:  Yes.  Distance is always… if use a cell phone for three minutes a day and your phone on your head, you're going to be an old lady before you pass away.  If you use a cell phone for hours at a time, that duration, that exposure time is really the most dangerous.  

Even though we talk about distance it’s also duration.  If you have something close and it’s only a few minutes, you don’t worry about it.  It’s hours at a time that’s the serious problem.  So that’s a rule that you want to be thinking about when you do this.  

In the case of that wall, you know is extreme low stuff is strong at the wall but after about three feet, it’s not much.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  So minimize.

Daniel:  Minimize.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So you want a minimum of three feet.

Daniel:  Three and four feet.  That really does remove the danger in most cases. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  There should be a law that smart meters shouldn’t be closer…

Daniel:  _____ [1:31:27] lab at California there was _____.  It’s another bee in the room that’s a constant load amongst the other bees in the room.  So yeah, there are revolts going on throughout the country, actually, it turns out on smart meters, and there should be.  

They're losing in court, by the way, not because of the transmitters but because of the privacy.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Whatever works.

Daniel:  Yeah, we don’t care why they convince them but that they convince them.  It’s like why should you have access to my coffeemaker?  You shouldn’t.  That’s mine, not yours.  That’s what these smart meters are arguing they're going to be doing anytime.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  To you, is there a meter you like… so we talked about transmitters in our products or devices and we should turn them off.  I think a lot of people don’t realize how pervasive transmitters are.  They're in our TVs and so many things.  Is there some meter that you recommend so that someone can go around their home and help identify where there might be a transmitter?

Daniel:  In general, I don't like them because they're extremely inaccurate, they can be very disconcerting to you and you're really safe.  It really depends on a lot of things.  So you spend a lot of money that you may not need to do if you're thoughtful about the environment you're in.  

Anything electronic in a room is a potential.  Which ones of those are emitting RF?  Minimize those RF signals.  Even a clock in a bedroom is ELF.  Don’t put it next to your head.  Put it a couple of feet away so you can see it but it’s not bothering you.  It’s just you do those basic things, you’re fine, because you've controlled everything you can.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I heard you on another podcast recommend less than two hours ideally.  This is impossible for a lot of people, but less than two hours in front of a digital screen.  I think that was in a conversation about eye health.  Does that ring a bell?

Daniel:  Yeah.  So when does a monitor create… when is it problematic to the eye?

[background conversation]

Actually, I tend not to like using two hour, one hour or five hours because we really don’t know.  Especially, we really don’t know about the individual and the exposure because we know it varies from one person to the next.  

But without any debate, there should be no long-term use of a monitor and screen without some recognition that the blue component, the blue visible light you're looking at can be dangerous to you and you need to be concerned about it.  

If you have a cell phone, put it in a mode which takes the blue light.  You know how it diminishes it at night?  That’s cutting out the blue component of the signal.  So that’s the right thing to do all the time.  You just eliminate it.  You can do it with modern monitors too.  

If you don’t want to do that, find glasses that can do it for you.  There are blue light-shielding glasses in the marketplace.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Like the ones you sell.

Daniel:  Like the ones we sell.  We not only…

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So on my desktop I can turn down the blue light?

Daniel:  Some of them you can, the newer ones.  So you want to look for that feature if they have it.  We know that manufacturers are beginning to understand a little bit about this and actually embedding into the products those kinds of caution features on blue light.  

There was a woman that was in a clinic and for 20 years she's been taking eye drops because her eyes were always bloodshot, fatigued.  Every time she went anywhere she had to wear sunglasses.  We know the research that blue light can also create dry eye, which is what was her diagnosis.  

So I sent out a pair of glasses to her.  Within two hours her eyes cleared up.  They were wet and she never had a problem again.  It was the blue component and her job where she was required for hours at a time to sit in front of a screen. 

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  So her eyes were able to get better?

Daniel:  Yeah.  Even the physician was amazed.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Because my eyes have been so dry.

Daniel:  It’s really true.  If you're looking at a screen it can easily be the case.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  I suspected it was the computer.  

Daniel:  Yeah, it’s the blue component.  It mucks around with you.  

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Well it’s been a real gift to be able to have this conversation with you.  I love what you're doing with your expertise to be able to empower people with important information and effective products.  Thank you.

Daniel:  You know, it turns out that years ago when my wife said she wants grandchildren, I thought to myself, “I’m not a victim.  We’re not a victim.  I’m not going to be a victim to this.”  That was one of the reasons I was prompted to create products to protect you.  Anything you put around your body, I try to find a way of minimizing the risks to the devices we use every day.  Because you're not going to get rid of your cell phone soon.  I’m not.  If that’s the case, let’s try to find ways of having that protection.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  Let me know when there are good 5G protection products.

Daniel:  I will.  I certainly will.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  Okay.  Thank you so much.

Daniel:  You're welcome.  Thank you for inviting me.  I appreciate it.

Sophia Ruan Gushée:  My pleasure.  And I'll reach out when this is published.  

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About Sophia Ruan Gushée

Sophia Ruan Gushée is a preeminent nontoxic lifestyle expert, author of the critically acclaimed books A to Z of D-Toxing and EMF Detox Workbook, creator of D-Tox Academy and 40-Day Home Detox, and host of the Practical Nontoxic Living podcast.

She has helped thousands of people eliminate harmful—often hidden—chemicals, heavy metals, and electromagnetic fields from their homes and lifestyles. Based on more than 15 years of tracking the latest research, she believes that removing these toxins is the overlooked key to unlocking greater mindfulness, mental clarity, emotional harmony, and physical healing.

Sophia also works with companies and served on the prestigious Brown University School of Public Health Advisory Council and the exclusive Well+Good Council. She has appeared or been featured on the most popular health and wellness platforms including The Doctor Oz Show, Health magazine, Family Circle magazine, MindBodyGreen, and much more. You can learn more about Sophia by clicking here: Sophia Ruan Gushée.